From collectables to cars, buy and sell all kinds of items on eBay
aAdvanced Search
Last Post 21-Nov-2009 6:13 PM by: nuvistors
Replies: 38
)
disisus
Posts: 7,253

Lesbian U.S. Soldier Wins New Canada Hearing for Refugee Status

20-Nov-2009 5:29 PM
Nov. 20 (Bloomberg) -- A U.S. deserter, who was denied refugee status in February, won a new hearing before Canada’s immigration board after a judge ruled the initial decision failed to consider the U.S. Army’s treatment of homosexual soldiers.

Bethany Lanae Smith, 21, deserted in September 2007 and sought refugee status in Canada, saying she risked cruel and unusual treatment if she returned because she’s gay. Smith says she was harassed and received death threats because of her appearance and because she was seen holding hands with a woman, according to court documents.

In his decision, Judge Yves de Montigny ruled the panel ignored evidence Smith presented on how gays are treated in the Army and its decision was not supported by evidence. He also said the board failed to consider Smith’s personal situation.

“The applicant’s claim is not simply that she is a conscientious objector and that she will be punished if she returns,” de Montigny wrote. “At the heart of the applicant’s claim is that she is a lesbian member of the U.S. Army, who was harassed and threatened at the same base where a gay member of the Army was beaten to death, and who feels she could not rely on her superiors to secure protection.”

The case is Between Bethany Lanae Smith and the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration. File No. IMM-677-09. Federal Court of Canada (Ottawa).
Link

.
.
.

.
Unless each day can be looked back upon by an individual
as one in which he has had some fun, some joy, some
real satisfaction, that day is a loss.
Reply
Name:
Email:
 
Tip: To create a link - type the desired text, highlight it with your mouse and click[Click for url tag]
Tags:
 
)
pigdog47
Posts: 2,661
(1 of 38)

Re: Lesbian U.S. Soldier Wins New Canada Hearing for Refugee Status

20-Nov-2009 9:13 PM
A conscientious objector who is also gay enlisted in the U S. military...............I think her guidance counsellor must have told her that this was not a good career choice.
Reply
Name:
Email:
 
Tip: To create a link - type the desired text, highlight it with your mouse and click[Click for url tag]
Tags:
 
)
disisus
Posts: 7,253
(2 of 38)

Re: Lesbian U.S. Soldier Wins New Canada Hearing for Refugee Status

20-Nov-2009 9:52 PM
She did not voluntarily disclose that she was gay pigdog. Someone saw her holding hands off the base. There are quite a lot of gay people in the military but they have this "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy. According to their policy, you don't ask and they don't tell. However, if they're found out and are harrassed or receive death threats, they can apply to be discharged. Well, she was found out and has recieved over 100 threatening notes on her dormitory door, including a death threat. They said they would beat her to death with a baseball bat like the last gay that was killed on that base.

Being gay is not a crime. She should not have to limit her career choices because of their prejudices. Since she has a legitimate reason to be concerned about her well being and even her life and the refugee board should take that into consideration as they would any death threat.

Canada has granted refugee status to gays before. From countries that would kill you if you were found out. This is the first time a claim has been made like this from the U.S. though.

What I find surprising is that many vocal opponents of the evils of being homosexual are actual gay themselves. It's a presecution complex. They've been taught all their lives that it's evil and wrong and have been fighting against it within themselves. They can't accept who they are and how they were born. I truely believe that people are born that way. Just as many others in the animal kingdom are.

.
.
.

.
Unless each day can be looked back upon by an individual
as one in which he has had some fun, some joy, some
real satisfaction, that day is a loss.
Reply
Name:
Email:
 
Tip: To create a link - type the desired text, highlight it with your mouse and click[Click for url tag]
Tags:
 
)
disisus
Posts: 7,253
(3 of 38)

Re: Lesbian U.S. Soldier Wins New Canada Hearing for Refugee Status

20-Nov-2009 10:10 PM
Another thing that bothers me. Canada's refugee board had a lot of vacancies and Harper has been filling them. In many cases, they're being filled with people that have been vocal in the past against things like same sex marriage and are considered evangelical Christians. There's nothing wrong with being a Christian as long as you don't let prejudices influence your decisions.
A refugee claimant goes in front of one person. If that person happens to be someone that judges someone based on their sexual orientation, or race, what chance do they have?
I think the refugee board should be made of people that are qualified ( not partisan positions ). People's lives depend on their decisions.

The Gov't promised a transparent process. What they've done is appoint friends and they've also cut the number of refugees Canada will accept in half.

.
.
.

.
Unless each day can be looked back upon by an individual
as one in which he has had some fun, some joy, some
real satisfaction, that day is a loss.
Reply
Name:
Email:
 
Tip: To create a link - type the desired text, highlight it with your mouse and click[Click for url tag]
Tags:
 
)
kashka
Posts: 1,640
(4 of 38)

Re: Lesbian U.S. Soldier Wins New Canada Hearing for Refugee Status

20-Nov-2009 10:13 PM
"Gov't" and "promised" in the same sentence. Isn't that an oxymoron??:^O

lisa

Photobucket

Photobucket
Reply
Name:
Email:
 
Tip: To create a link - type the desired text, highlight it with your mouse and click[Click for url tag]
Tags:
 
)
disisus
Posts: 7,253
(5 of 38)

Re: Lesbian U.S. Soldier Wins New Canada Hearing for Refugee Status

20-Nov-2009 10:25 PM
"Gov't" and "promised" in the same sentence. Isn't that an oxymoron??

LOL. Yes, you're right Lisa.

The way our system works now is wrong and I think it needs to change. It's been this way thru both Liberal and Conservative Gov'ts. One person decides another person's fate with no appeal unless they take it to court? It should be a panel of people. Like a jury. This person did take it to court and the court basically said that the refugee board ( this one person ) can't ignore threats based on a persons sexual orientation. That makes sense to me.

.
.
.

.
Unless each day can be looked back upon by an individual
as one in which he has had some fun, some joy, some
real satisfaction, that day is a loss.
Reply
Name:
Email:
 
Tip: To create a link - type the desired text, highlight it with your mouse and click[Click for url tag]
Tags:
 
)
pigdog47
Posts: 2,661
(6 of 38)

Re: Lesbian U.S. Soldier Wins New Canada Hearing for Refugee Status

20-Nov-2009 10:40 PM
"She should not have to limit her career choices because of their prejudices"

A disonorable discharge from the US military for desertion is not something that most employers would look favorably upon. She alone, by her actions, has limited her future career choices.
Reply
Name:
Email:
 
Tip: To create a link - type the desired text, highlight it with your mouse and click[Click for url tag]
Tags:
 
)
disisus
Posts: 7,253
(7 of 38)

Re: Lesbian U.S. Soldier Wins New Canada Hearing for Refugee Status

20-Nov-2009 10:55 PM
Pigdog.

This person has been working in Canada and paying taxes since she moved here. Most employers in Canada do not consider fighting in Iraq a plus and she's had no problems. They do not consider her plight desertion. Any employer that would you would not want to work for anyways.

I get the feeling that a dishonorable discharge from the U.S. military is ok with her. It's better than having her life threatened. I can understand that.

.
.
.

.
Unless each day can be looked back upon by an individual
as one in which he has had some fun, some joy, some
real satisfaction, that day is a loss.
Reply
Name:
Email:
 
Tip: To create a link - type the desired text, highlight it with your mouse and click[Click for url tag]
Tags:
 
)
pigdog47
Posts: 2,661
(8 of 38)

Re: Lesbian U.S. Soldier Wins New Canada Hearing for Refugee Status

20-Nov-2009 11:16 PM
I think quitting a job for whatever reason carries some social stigma. Doesn't E.I. view being laid off from a job different than quitting one when applying for benefits?

As this particular individual was well aware that the US military was involved in some foreign military adventures or misadventures before she enlisted, I find her "conscientious objector" claim specious.

Similarly, she was most certainly aware of both the Don't Ask/Don't Tell policy, and the perils of being persecuted for homosexuality, yet chose by her appearance, and actions, to risk facing repercussions.

By crossing the border (illegally?) she is now "our" problem, and I just have less compassion for her than others here. A cold blooded reptillian state I will make no apologies for.
Reply
Name:
Email:
 
Tip: To create a link - type the desired text, highlight it with your mouse and click[Click for url tag]
Tags:
 
)
disisus
Posts: 7,253
(9 of 38)

Re: Lesbian U.S. Soldier Wins New Canada Hearing for Refugee Status

20-Nov-2009 11:32 PM
I think quitting a job for whatever reason carries some social stigma. Doesn't E.I. view being laid off from a job different than quitting one when applying for benefits?

Yes, they do. But an employer is not allowed to lay a person off because they don't like their sexual orientation. Or threaten them. Surely you know this?

As this particular individual was well aware that the US military was involved in some foreign military adventures or misadventures before she enlisted, I find her "conscientious objector" claim specious.

Many military personal originally volunteered for service but changed their mind when they found out their gov't lied to them. Yes, they want to defend their country but not based on lies. Her refugee claim wasn't even primarily based on that. It was based on the treats to her life as someone who was gay in the military. The person who saw her refugee claim ignored the treats to her well being because of her sexual orientation. The judge stated that they cannot ignore credible threats. And since another gay person on her base was beaten to death by a baseball bat and she was threatened with the same, her fears were grounded in reality.

By crossing the border (illegally?) she is now "our" problem

Do you know if she crossed the border illegally Pigdog? Or are you just trying to put ideas into people's heads and prejudice them against her?

I used to think that you were a reasonable person.

.
.
.

.
Unless each day can be looked back upon by an individual
as one in which he has had some fun, some joy, some
real satisfaction, that day is a loss.
Reply
Name:
Email:
 
Tip: To create a link - type the desired text, highlight it with your mouse and click[Click for url tag]
Tags:
 
)
pigdog47
Posts: 2,661
(10 of 38)

Re: Lesbian U.S. Soldier Wins New Canada Hearing for Refugee Status

20-Nov-2009 11:53 PM
"Surely you know this?"

Surely, yes. I was equating desertion with quitting. Period. Surely you know this?

"Do you know if she crossed the border illegally Pigdog"

Nope. That's the reason for the question mark after the "illegally". Do you know if she crossed the border legally Disisus?

I'll betcha she was AWOL when she crossed. Just a wild, off-the-wall nunch.

"are you just trying to put ideas into people's heads and prejudice them against her? "

heck no. I was having a discussion with you, but by your statement it appears as though a free and open discussion of your thread is not what you are seeking. Is it?

"I used to think that you were a reasonable person."

I'm sorry to say that I feel the same way towards you.
Reply
Name:
Email:
 
Tip: To create a link - type the desired text, highlight it with your mouse and click[Click for url tag]
Tags:
 
)
disisus
Posts: 7,253
(11 of 38)

Re: Lesbian U.S. Soldier Wins New Canada Hearing for Refugee Status

21-Nov-2009 12:17 AM
Nope. That's the reason for the question mark after the "illegally". Do you know if she crossed the border legally Disisus?

I'll betcha she was AWOL when she crossed. Just a wild, off-the-wall nunch.


I haven't been able to substantiate any of that.
She crossed the border. It appears she was not on any AWOL or any other list at the time.

.
.
.

.
Unless each day can be looked back upon by an individual
as one in which he has had some fun, some joy, some
real satisfaction, that day is a loss.
Reply
Name:
Email:
 
Tip: To create a link - type the desired text, highlight it with your mouse and click[Click for url tag]
Tags:
 
)
pigdog47
Posts: 2,661
(12 of 38)

Re: Lesbian U.S. Soldier Wins New Canada Hearing for Refugee Status

21-Nov-2009 2:14 AM
It appears she was indeed AWOL when she entered Canada, and that she intended her stay here to be of indefinite duration. Welcome to Canada, Miss Smith.

Link

Smith fled the base on September 9, 2007 with another solider and arrived in Canada two days later, filing her refugee claim Oct. 16”
Reply
Name:
Email:
 
Tip: To create a link - type the desired text, highlight it with your mouse and click[Click for url tag]
Tags:
 
)
disisus
Posts: 7,253
(13 of 38)

Re: Lesbian U.S. Soldier Wins New Canada Hearing for Refugee Status

21-Nov-2009 3:12 AM
“Smith fled the base on September 9, 2007 with another solider and arrived in Canada two days later, filing her refugee claim Oct. 16”

Most people filing for refugee status do not inform the people they're fleeing from so they can capture them. And when Bush decided to skip camp he was AWOL and didn't tell anyone either. He didn't have an excuse of death threats. It was more along the lines of " I had campaigning to do and couldn't be bothered with actice duty".

The point is that no should be forced to stay in a position where other people are threatening their life. Especially when those people are supposed to be on their side. She may have signed up for active duty. And may have been willing to give her life for her country. But she never signed up to give her life up to homophophics.

.
.
.

.
Unless each day can be looked back upon by an individual
as one in which he has had some fun, some joy, some
real satisfaction, that day is a loss.
Reply
Name:
Email:
 
Tip: To create a link - type the desired text, highlight it with your mouse and click[Click for url tag]
Tags:
 
)
nuvistors
Posts: 2,667
(14 of 38)

Re: Lesbian U.S. Soldier Wins New Canada Hearing for Refugee Status

21-Nov-2009 9:30 AM
“Smith fled the base on September 9, 2007 with another solider and arrived in Canada two days later, filing her refugee claim Oct. 16”




Which means that she entered the country illegally. She is just another in the long line of fake refugees like the boat load of Tamils that landed in BC.
Reply
Name:
Email:
 
Tip: To create a link - type the desired text, highlight it with your mouse and click[Click for url tag]
Tags:
 
Page: of 3

Feedback Forum | Discussion Boards | Answer Centre | Charity Fundraising | Community Values

About eBay | Announcements | Security Centre | Policies | Site Map | Help
Copyright © 1995-2010 eBay Inc. All Rights Reserved. Designated trademarks and brands are the property of their respective owners. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of the eBay User Agreement and Privacy Policy.
eBay official time
hosted by LiveWorld